The Kitty Corner, Edition 2

Robin

Thanks for another informative article. I met Mimi and she is so docile and sweet…must be part ragdoll. Any of these kitties would make a wonderful pet. Keep promoting…so many still deserve loving homes!!!

http://www.facebook.com/IRISHUPON LeeAnn OReilly

The NL WEST SPCA would like to say THANK YOU.We would be remiss if we also didnt send out a MASSIVE thank you to the folks of the West Coast that gave countless hours of care, of donations and supplies all of which helped to get so many cats into a new home.151 cats have a new life thanks to their generosity.

Collette

TNR does not work. Fact :1 “There is no evidence that colony management programs will reduce diseases…” 2 from PETA Having witnessed firsthand the gruesome things that can happen to feral cats, we cannot in good conscience advocate trapping and releasing as a humane way to deal with overpopulation. 3.Cats often have intestinal parasites, including roundworms and hookworms. They also have external parasites, including fleas and ticks. They may have upper respiratory infections or urinary tract infections. All of these illnesses and more are almost always left untreated in these cats after they have been released. fact 4 .Reduced rates of euthanasia at municipal or county animal shelters do not mean there are any fewer feral cats in a given area. Studies have shown that numbers of cats can increase during TNR 5 TNR cats often suffer and live miserable lives in colonies. Those that do die often have been hit by cars, attacked by dogs or wildlife, or ravaged by disease. Sometimes cats just disappear and caretakers never know the fate of these animals….I could continue.Do your homework people.The objective studies show this program does not work.

collette

One more thing.People need to do research on this subject.TNR advocates would love to paint a fuzzy warm picture of these feral animals.The reality is far from it.Look at the research not done bt “allycats” [which is completely bogus and self serving]..but instead seek out the studies done by objective people who have nothing to gain or lose.There is where you would find the proper information.You would be very surprised to learn the reality of this TNR colonies .

ugh

why don’t YOU do some research and get the facts about TNR straight? you’ve been drinking the PETA cool-aid for too long…for them killing is the only answer.
- Collette
  
  As I have stated on many occasions,I have read both sides of the argument but it seems to me as if you people cannot grasp the fact that I have read these pro TNR studies but still DISAGREE.As for PETA [whom many of you keep bringing up due to my quote from them], that is certainly not the only quote I used and I am in no way a fan or affiliated with them.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Why are you bringing up TNR, Collette? The East Side Cats are/were house cats/kittens. Also wondering why you are so opposed to TNR. Worried about the little animals and birds the community cats might eat, so the cats have to die, Collette? The Federation of Humane Societies’ position statement in regard to community cats says, in part, “The CFHS supports a multi-faceted approach to dealing with feral cats, including: a ‘trap, spay/neuter, vaccinate and release program.” You would be well advised to look for information this side of the border, and to the numerous TNR programs that have been (and are being) implemented by many a community. You quote PeTA? The folks that kill almost every companion animal who goes through their “shelter” doors?!

caringcitizen

I’ve worked with TNR colonies for years Collette and it does work. Instead of quoting an organization that kills almost all the companion animals it takes charge of (yes, Peta kills over 95% of the animals that it takes in, most immediately) why don’t you open your mind and volunteer with a TNR group for a while and see for yourself? Repeating Peta’s lies just makes you look bad. Read Nathan Winograd’s blog if you want to learn the truth.

caringcitizen

I’ve worked with TNR colonies for years Collette and it does work. Instead of quoting an organization that kills almost all the companion animals it takes charge of (yes, Peta kills over 95% of the animals that it takes in, most immediately) why don’t you open your mind and volunteer with a TNR group for a while and see for yourself? Repeating Peta’s lies just makes you look bad. Read Nathan Winograd’s blog if you want to learn the truth.

Collette

TNR does not work.A cats lifespan is cut in half, they are sick, diseased ,parasite ridden with no vet care.If they get sick or injured,they crawl away and die.Often very painfully.Or they are preyed upon.I could go on but I know it is useless.You people who defend this think a safe happy life for a cat basically consist of a regular meal and a rubbermaid container with straw in it.This is your idea of quality of life.

Collette

Caretaker, for the record.Maybe I am worried about the little critters that these cats kill.Why is that any more wrong than you concern about the cats.In fact I would go as far as to say the birds and voles etc have more of a right to exist in the wild .They are native species.Feral cats are not. I love cats.In fact I have 3.I certainly would never want them to live as part of a colony,feral or otherwise.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Cats have been in existence in the wild for thousands of years, Collette. Society has used cats to control rodents and the like for centuries. TNR is the more realistic, and most humane, method of control. Society has been trying to control them by killing, but that will not work. You would need to kill on a massive scale and continue doing so. Conservationists have killed all the cats and kittens on over 70 islands to date, at great financial cost, but it is not possible to kill enough of the cats on continents that would be needed to control their numbers. Nor would the public tolerate massive killing.

(Nearby communities to NL dumps should be/should have been approached about more humane options for their dump cats, rather than attempting to kill them all…)

TNR does work, Collette – but it is only one of the facets of a multifaceted approach needed to deal with the cat population. People need to stop abandoning their cats and kittens, need to spay or neuter their cats and kittens – and dogs/puppies – (low- or no-cost spay/neuter services are needed), and cats should be microchipped or tattooed so that they can be returned to their family if lost.

You should consider researching what is involved in TNR. It’s a lot more than trap-neuter-return. “You people…” Yes, I’m one of those “people.” I am a caretaker of feral and stray cats and a member of a TNVR organization. We give the cats a helping hand when needed, not a lethal injection (unless they are not treatable).

booradley

TNR is practiced SUCCESSFULLY worldwide…not only are you wrong but you espouse views from so-called “rescue groups” that hold outdated and inhumane views on how to deal with feral cats. Note to the editors: Instead of publishing this ridiculous rubbish why don’t you get members of local rescue and TNR groups to talk about their experiences, instead of this misinformed garbage?????????

Collette

TNR supporters state that altered colony cats will prevent new cats from joining existing colonies. YET, cats get abandoned at these colonies regularly and an important part of attempting to keep the colonies stabilized is monitoring them for newcomers!
TNR supporters state that we cannot Trap and Remove cats because new ones will move into the area. YET, for some reason this does not happen in ten years if and when a colony is eliminated? TNR is based on perpetual colony maintenance.
TNR supporters state that trying to tame a feral cat is no different than trying to tame a bobcat. They state that feral cats are not unlike wild animals and ferals are not suitable pets. YET, we need to sustain them by providing food because they are dependent upon humans for survival.
TNR supporters state that we all have risks and therefore we should not remove and euthanize feral cats just because they risk injury, illness and tragic death. YET, humans have the capacity, unlike cats, to make informed choices through rational thought and decision-making tools. Cats are advanced in many ways, but are dependent upon humans for their survival. TNR supporters state many reasons why TNR is effective and humane (often based on opinion or emotion rather than grounded in science or common sense). YET, when asked to research and refute reputable studies and information that indicates otherwise, they have no more to say. Could this be because folks fear the possibility that they will be forced to come to the conclusion that what they have been doing is not, in fact, in the best interest of feral cats, the environment or public health?

Janet

After reading down through the comments,I have to say I agree with Collette.My experiance with so called “no kill” rescues have been negative,especially around the TNR.I too have researched both sides and am not convinced in any way that TNR cats live this wonderful comfortable lives that advocates would like you to believe.I also feel that “no kill” rescues are a farce.They will cause unnecessary suffering to animals who should be humanely euthanized just to maintain that fuzzy warm stance of “no kill”.They also will turn animals away if they feel they will not be able to adopt them out.So what happens ,these unadoptable animals end up in traditionl shelters where they ultimately euthanized.Basically “no kill” rescues pass the buck.Please do not ask me to look up studies.IAs I said, I have read studies on both sides.

Collette

http://www.urbanwildlands.org/Resources/2009LongcoreetalConBio.pdf Please read this here is an excerp taken from this study which basically summarizes.” Unfortunately, TNR does not eliminate feral cat
colonies under prevailing conditions (Jessup 2004; Winter
2004, 2006) and many false claims used to support
the approach go unchallenged. Published research has
been distorted by TNR proponents with little response
from the scientific community, perhaps in part because
TNR has been approached largely as an animal welfare
issue instead of being recognized as a broad environmental
issue with a range of impacts on species conservation,
the physical environment, and human health” The study is called “Critical Assessment of Claims Regarding Management
of Feral Cats by Trap–Neuter–Return

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Good source (Urban Wildlands Group, an American group of conservationists) to look for information if you don’t want cats outdoors. Travis Longcore, et al. definitely don’t like cats outdoors. The American Bird Conservancy and The Wildlife Society don’t like cats outdoors, either, so you should be able to find information to use against community cats there, too.
- Collette
  
  There is good legitimate reasons that they dont want feral cat colonies.While your only concern is that you ” save” the cats [and that too is a matter of opinion},there are many of us who view other factors just as serious as your cats and the miserable lives you perpetuate.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Ah, two (Janet and Collette) who have researched the subject of feral cats and TNR, and now feel they know what is best. Please do let all those communities, TNR organizations, the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, along with numerous veterinarians and scientists/researchers, know that they are misguided. All these people couldn’t possibly have studied the issues, or perhaps they have different feral cats than Newfoundland. There are even misguided organizations performing TNR on dump cats, of all things. You two had better let them know they are supposed to kill the cats, not TNR them.

In regard to the East Side Cats: All those involved with the cats and kittens did a tremendous job! My deepest sympathy at the loss of the remaining cats at the temporary shelter. Heart-breaking.

Collette

Well caretaker, maybe you can let all those communities such as Audubon,The national Associations of Public Health Vets, PETA, etc. Life outdoors is NEVER in the best interest of the cat…
Municipal Experiences
Failure in Point Pleasant Beach, NJ
Failure at Pier 70
Failure at David Douglass Park
Failure at JFK International Airport
Failure in Baltimore, MD
Should We Use Cats As Mousers?
Crushed by a Car – The Dying is Worse than the Death
Killed by a Fan Belt – The Dying is Worse than the Death Warning! Graphic Photos.
Head Trapped in a Jar – The Dying is Worse than the Death Warning! Graphic Photos.
Video of an Ear-tipped Injured Feral Cat Warning! Graphic.
New video from the American Bird Conservancy – Trap, Neuter and Release: Bad for Cats, Disaster for Birds

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Your source, Collette? TNR Reality Check, perhaps? The American conservationists propaganda website?
- Collette
  
  Whats your point ,Reality check? It is no different than you quoting studies and propaganda from “Ally Cat” or “Mollies Dream”. It doesnt change the fact that there are 2 sides to the argument.Cats are considered an exotic,invasive species.If you were a true animal lover as I am,you would also be concerned abbout other native species whom these feral cats destroy in millions ,daily.But of course you and your kind only want to focus on your “kitties” amd nothing else matters..Instane’s comment below sums it up nicely.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  I quoted from the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, a fairly impartial source. Yes, there are two sides to the issue of feral and stray cats. Those who feel TNR is the more realistic, and humane, option to deal with community cats, and the others who wish to continue with the trap and kill method. Trap and kill has been the method of dealing with feral and stray cats for a long time. Do you see a reduction in the outdoor cat population?
- Collette
  
  There is no proven study that there is a reduction of number of cats because of TNR.A dead cat cannot reproduce either.You people care about the cats only.Nothing else.Really ,you dont even care about the cats,or you wouldnt be throwing them back out in the elements to risk death by accident ,by predators,etc ,etc.According to TNR,eventually the cat colony should die off.This does not seem to happen.

Collette

Copy and paste the links below to show what TNR is really all about.

Collette

I would also like to point out that TNR advocates only focus on the fact that the cat is not humanely euthanized.They ignore the fact that these same cats who are TNR ,usually die from disease,illness,accident with no vet care.They spread disease to our pets etc etc etc.I am an animal and bird lover.These feral cats prey upon many native species of birds and small mammals.TNR cat colonies are considered and invasive exotic species that in some places have caused the extinction of certain birds/small mammals in a particular area.But of course that is completely okay as long as you feel the little kitties are “okay”.

Elizabeth Oldham

The cats that are roaming should be inside. It is not the animals fault that a human disregarded a domestic animal.
We have TNR colonies here in Halifax that are constantly maintained. They have shelter food and vet care.
They are the lucky ones. No one wants their garbage torn open etc. however when an animal is tossed out or left behind, not spayed or neutered what is it to do to survive.
As Humans with all the destruction we impose on our lands and waters cats can’t come close to the lives and species we have cleared from this planet.
Should we be put down for overpopulation? For not practicing birth control.
Whether or not you believe in TNR makes no difference to me.
Humans created this problem and we are responsible to fix it.
- Collette
  
  Actually I agree with most of what you say.The difference between TNR and TNPS is that the cats are actually kept in a enclosed area so that they can be monitored and not wander off sick,get killed by cars or predators etc.Can you seriously say that is not better for the precious kitty? One can monitor them effectively and provide care when needed to the sick and injured.Cats are notorious for wandering off when sick and injured.

Collette

https://www.avma.org/News/Journals/Collections/Documents/javma_225_9_1365.pdf

In-Stane

Don’t anyone fall for the song and dance about cat-lovers being animal-lovers, they are anything but that. They don’t give one damn about any other animals nor even other humans. The ONLY things they care about are themselves and their damnable cats. Cat-lovers have the same values that cats have–themselves. Nobody else and nothing else matters to them.

Their TNR (trap, neuter, release) programs are a dismal failure too. A smokescreen and time & money waster. Don’t let anyone try to convince you otherwise. Do a search online for the truth about all TNR failures.

.It’s time to give cats and cat-lovers the same consideration and respect that they have for all other humans and all other wildlife–that means NONE. Don’t bother wasting your time arguing with disrespectful, inconsiderate, and ignorant cat-lovers either, as I stupidly tried to do too many times in the past. Just do what needs to be done and there’ll be nothing to argue about.

This year owls and foxes have returned to my woods. Through a large effort of my own, including raising and releasing native mice and voles to help repopulate the species that their piece-of-sh!t cats destroyed. Their lousy cats are finally gone. But I’ll shoot again on first-sight the first chance I get . The rewards for ridding one’s land of ALL cats and restoring the native wildlife population are far too great.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Woodsman, you and Collette should get along famously. Perhaps you can teach her a few things when it comes to advocating for the killing of outdoor cats. What’s your cat-killing count up to now?
- Collette
  
  Actually caretaker,you are wrong.I love and have always owned cats.Still do.I am a reponsible owner they are always neuterd and spayed.Never had a unwanted batch of kittens.BUT I do agree with this lunatics first paragraph.

Janet

Collette ,It is pointless to argue with these people.You can site all the studies that refute TNR .They will not entertai any sort of thought process ,other than the narrow minded opinion they already have.Its like trying to talk sense to an extremist reegious zealot.Same type of thinking.Common sense will not prevail here.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

The Federation of Canadian Humane Societies, along with many veterinarians, other professionals, city and town councils, others, are narrow-minded extremists?
- Collette
  
  According to you,the Audubon Society,
  American Veterinary Medical Association,
  The Wildlife Society,
  American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians ,National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians.Some Humane Societies will agree with TNR simply because there is more funding .What you identify as success is the fact that the cats are alive.It doesnt matter to you about the quality of life,just as long as your hands stay clean.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Most of the TNR work is done by TNR organizations – all-volunteer organizations, who receive no funding from any level of government, who have to fundraise and try to obtain grants to fund the aid provided to community cats. Quite often, the caretakers TNR and maintain their colonies out of their own pocket. I can tell you, that if TNR advocates are in this for money, we’re going about it wrong.
  
  I am a caretaker. I deal with feral and stray cats daily. If I felt any of the cats were better off dead, they would be – at my own expense. If a vet advises me that a cat in my care cannot be helped, the cat dies. A piece of me dies with them. When you folks kill cats under the mistaken belief that all of them are better off dead, you do them a grave injustice. I consider your actions animal cruelty.
- Janet
  
  Caretaker, for all the legitimate points about the terrible things that happen to these cats, you make no comment .When legitimate points are raised about the downfalls of TNR , you have no answer.When articles and studies are pointed out to you proving the failure of TNR,you make no comment.Your only real point is that the cats are not humanely euthanized.I have read down through this thread and really you have repeatedly repeated yourself.There are many renowned reputable groups that are not in favour of TNR.They have already been mentioned several time .You choose to ignore.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  You, Janet, appear to be ignoring all information that is contrary to your “euthanization” policy. Are you aware that there are studies that support TNR, that support community cats? I am aware of the studies that reflect negatively on TNR/community cats (and the backgrounds of the study authors, for or against) I am aware of some organizations who are making a concerted effort to have community cats treated as vermin, to have them killed in massive numbers (that policy hasn’t worked for Australia, etc.). I’m aware that some outdoor cats will suffer, and I’m aware that many have a good quality of life. Are you aware of why mainstream animal welfare organizations, along with an ever increasing number of communities, are advocating for TNVR now? It is what is achievable, what is realistic, in trying to control the outdoor cat population. Many also consider TNVR the humane option.

Janet

This, in my opinion is the best solution to feral cat,For the people who dont feel euthanization is an option.This is taken from an article entitled ” forgotten felines rescue inc’ “FFRI’s Solution: Trap Neuter and Provide Sanctuary
(TNPS)
FFRI believes that trapping, neutering, and providing indoor sanctuary with
protected outside access when feasible is the most logical and humane solution
for feral cats, as long as the caretakers research and obey municipal laws and
stay within their financial means. Though TNPS is the least common solution, it is
actually easier and less stressful than TNR, because the cats are on your property.
They are convenient for you to feed, you are assured they are safe, you enjoy
peace of mind during bad weather, and it will be easier to provide them with
veterinary care when they need it. Providing sanctuary may include letting the cats
live in a structure on your property, bringing them into a designated area of your
home, such as a basement, or you may allow them to roam freely in your home.
Feral cats prefer a comfortable, safe indoor life to a lifelong experience of
homeless perils. This is because feral cats are domestic animals that just act wild,
apparently as an instinctive defense mechanism to aid in their survival; they are not
wild animals. In contrast to wild animals such as squirrels, raccoons and skunks,
cats are ill-equipped to survive on their own. Feral cats do not thrive in the woods
where there is no human existence. Stray and feral cats form colonies around
human food sources, such as open trash containers or dumpsters.
Since feral cats relax best in the company of other feral cats, never rescue just
one. Feral cats will warm up and bond with you given time; there are no age
constraints to socialization. ” This is the only option that should be entertained by all parties.Both pro and con TNR.

Collette

Now that Janet,is much more humane and sensible.I will agree on this one.At least the cats are confined to a particular area and closely monitored.By far a better solution than this TNR bullcrap!

Janet

At least with TNPS, the cats are not bothering other people, or wildlife, or damaging the ecosystem.They are also not living the short miserable life which TNR sentences them.If society cannot manage TNPS, than humane euthanization is the only way.

Collette

WOW.Finally,a alternative that will shut the pro TNR people up.TNPS! At least its humane! Something that TNR isnt.

Janice Higgins

I am curious as to Janet and Collette do not identify themselves by their full name and contact info. I am also curious why they chose to debate TNR in this blog on hoarded domesticated cats, why they didn’t attend the annual meeting of SCAREDY CAT RESCUE to debate the issue. I am curious as to why they blindly believe the written words of discredited groups such as Peta without ever trying the TNR approach? I am curious to know what Janet and Collette are doing to prevent cat abandonment and what they are doing to help the homeless cats? I am curious as to why they need the cloak of anonymity to issue forth their views? I believe I know your identity, why don’t you have the courage to stand by your convictions by using your real identiity? Janice Higgins email: scaredycatrescue@yahoo.ca

Janet

This, in my opinion is the best solution to feral cat,For the people who dont feel euthanization is an option.This is taken from an article entitled ” forgotten felines rescue inc’ “FFRI’s Solution: Trap Neuter and Provide Sanctuary
(TNPS)
FFRI believes that trapping, neutering, and providing indoor sanctuary with
protected outside access when feasible is the most logical and humane solution
for feral cats, as long as the caretakers research and obey municipal laws and
stay within their financial means. Though TNPS is the least common solution, it is
actually easier and less stressful than TNR, because the cats are on your property.
They are convenient for you to feed, you are assured they are safe, you enjoy
peace of mind during bad weather, and it will be easier to provide them with
veterinary care when they need it. Providing sanctuary may include letting the cats
live in a structure on your property, bringing them into a designated area of your
home, such as a basement, or you may allow them to roam freely in your home.
Feral cats prefer a comfortable, safe indoor life to a lifelong experience of
homeless perils. This is because feral cats are domestic animals that just act wild,
apparently as an instinctive defense mechanism to aid in their survival; they are not
wild animals. In contrast to wild animals such as squirrels, raccoons and skunks,
cats are ill-equipped to survive on their own. Feral cats do not thrive in the woods
where there is no human existence. Stray and feral cats form colonies around
human food sources, such as open trash containers or dumpsters.
Since feral cats relax best in the company of other feral cats, never rescue just
one. Feral cats will warm up and bond with you given time; there are no age
constraints to socialization. ” This is the only option that should be entertained by all parties.Both pro and con TNR.

http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

Many cats rescued in Corner Brook have gained homes. People like you now need to offer your home as santuary for a couple or more ferals, as we are running short of homes! So our option is to have the others cared for after neutering rather than killing them. We aren’t going to see your kill perspective any faster than you are prepared to try our method. I see many of your comments are copied from the same pages I have read online. While I am typing I have two foster cats stepping on my laptop, one on my lap, the others close by.. what are you doing at the moment to improve the life of innocent critters? Get a life, stop trying to push your antiquated views on others.
- Collette
  
  Janice, let me tell you something.I have my share of rescued animals.I will not turn into a hoarder of any type.As I said on this forum several times,I do my part for my local traditional shelter.I volunteer.All my animals are rescues. I help with fund raising adn donations.Just because I disagree with TNR does not make me less of an animal lover.The difference is,I love all animals.Not just cats.You are a typical “crazy cat lady” not far from a hoarder.I also recognize my limitations as do traditional shelters.Perhaps the next time a shelter has to make hard decisions around feral colonies,you should not push your antiquated view on them.My God .I have read some of your comments on other shelters facebook page.Truly sickening.Perhaps if you kept your rediculous comments to your own sad pathetic group,I wouldnt feel the need to voice my opinion to you and your cronies and this pathetic abusive, neglectful TNR stuff. Funny though, If I were a cat owner that did nothing only throw food for them,and provide a rubbermade container as a “shelter”, I would be charged with neglect.Which is exactly what it is.

Janet

Janice..you are not seriously going to try and say that TNR is better than TNPS.Do tell as to why .

Cherie

I read down through this thread..And I also done a little web research…both pro and against TNR.I have drawn my own unbiased conclusion that I would much rather prefer the TNPS method.Not sure why this would be less popular considering that the caretakers would know exactly what and wher the cats are.No offence.

Janet

As for not using my name.I have my reasons.Maybe Janice, I am a long time member of your facebook page .Maybe I have been there reading some of the hateful venom that comes from a lot of you pro TNR people.Maybe I joined your group to have a good look at the real mentality of your so called rescue .Maybe my conclusion is that no only dont TNR work.But the people who push this method are really very mean spirited people who think they are the best thing.

Collette

Janice Higgins.Conviction has nothing to do with my not giving my full name. I too, have seen the venom that as spewed forth about other rescues on you SCR facebook page.Perhaps this is my way to let you know that many see what some of you say.Believe me when I say I do my part around animal rescue.Some of you who bash other rescues on the SCR facebook page, will than comment all nicey nicey on the rescues own facebook page, the one they just finished bashing.Sick and pathetic.You know who you are.If you want to bash a certain rescue group in your closed group [and I use that term loosely], that is your prerogative. Its funny though, I never see the other traditional rescues bashing SCR.Perhaps it is because the other groups are being run by professional people and not the holier than thou group of people that SCR seems to attract.

Janet

Ha Janice Higgins,Doesnt take much to upset the apple cart on SCR facebook page.Let me explain how I do my part with animals.Every single animal I have is a rescue.I support my local rescue through donations and I volunteer and take in fosters .Just because I am in complete disagreement with TNR [which equals miserable lives for cats}..does not mean I am anti cat or anti animal.No ,I will not be providing my full name,simply because you and your so called facebook group would do nothing only spew venom toward me and the rescue group I support.You still have not answered how TNR is a better solution than TNPS..please enlighten this armchair warrior.If you know me as you claim ,you must be just as big a coward as you perceive me to be.Please name me on your facebook page.I think you would be very very surprised about my real full identity.Again.How is TNR better than TNPS.You have yet to answer that question.Could it be that TNR really is not the best answer??

http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

only other local cat rescue group in town is SPCA, of which I was a board member. They Support TNR. Have you started a santuary yet? Hope it’s not like many of the pones I’ve read about online:
http://www.inquisitr.com/135149/700-cats-haven-acres-sanctuary-florida-cat-hoarders/
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hundreds-of-cats-at-pennsylvania-animal-sanctuary-rescued-by-aspca-with-assistance-from-american-humane-association–petsmart-charities-97087159.html
In their contribution to AVMA’s 2004 Animal Welfare Forum, Julie Levy and Cynda Crawford suggest : “most sanctuary programs that permanently house feral cats are filled to capacity almost immediately after opening.” [5]
And yet, years later, sanctuaries are still being marketed as alternatives to TNR.
Sanctuaries: The Realities and Impacts
Alley Cat Allies opposes sanctuaries for feral cats, citing as concerns the inherent economic and medical challenges, as well as the overall lack of capacity—factors that too often prove insurmountable:
“A number of sanctuaries are forced to close their doors every year due to insufficient funds or an inability to properly care for the cats in the existing confined space.”
- Collette
  
  Than if the sanctuaries are filled to capacity,the rest should be humanely euthanized.Not thrown out like garbage to fight agaiinst the elements,to fight off predators,suffer long slow painful deaths.But you wouldnt see that either considering a cat will crawl away to die.You are siting funding problems for sanctuaries.LOLOL.So thats a good reason to throw the cat back outside after it has been neutered..Rediculous.As for “allycat allies” that is a farce.They appose sancuaries because of “medical challenges” .well I guess if a cat gets sick in a sancuary,the caretakers can see it and would have to treat it.Tnr’s dont give you that pesky problem.You dont have to address the medical stuff simply because you probably will not see the cat if it is sick.WOW.What an absolute cop out and pile of crap.Economic factors.If all you have to provide is bit of food and a rubbermade container , well that is why TNR is cheaper.It is because TNR does not provide everything that would give a cat a happy healthy life.Again ,that does not make it right.As for lack of capacity…of course there will be only a certain amount of cats who could stay in a sancuary. No brainer.That still is not a reason to throw a cat back out. TNR cats are not properly vetted.They have chronic parasite problems both inside and out due to lack of routine care, they are at high risk of injury and illness and accidents….but I guess that is not the caretakers problem just as long as you throw a bit of food at them. Get real.
http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

only other local cat rescue group in town is SPCA, of which I was a board member. They Support TNR. Have you started a santuary yet? Hope it’s not like many of the pones I’ve read about online:
http://www.inquisitr.com/135149/700-cats-haven-acres-sanctuary-florida-cat-hoarders/
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hundreds-of-cats-at-pennsylvania-animal-sanctuary-rescued-by-aspca-with-assistance-from-american-humane-association–petsmart-charities-97087159.html
In their contribution to AVMA’s 2004 Animal Welfare Forum, Julie Levy and Cynda Crawford suggest : “most sanctuary programs that permanently house feral cats are filled to capacity almost immediately after opening.” [5]
And yet, years later, sanctuaries are still being marketed as alternatives to TNR.
Sanctuaries: The Realities and Impacts
Alley Cat Allies opposes sanctuaries for feral cats, citing as concerns the inherent economic and medical challenges, as well as the overall lack of capacity—factors that too often prove insurmountable:
“A number of sanctuaries are forced to close their doors every year due to insufficient funds or an inability to properly care for the cats in the existing confined space.”

collette

Janice..just remember..it is not only the pro tnr people on this thread who choose to be anonymous..I guess “caretaker” , “caringcitizen” , and ”booradly” are all choosing this route.But once again,your pettyness shines through.Its okay for them but not for myself and a few others.REALLY???..loolololo

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

I am using my Twitter account. Not exactly anonymous.
http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

Dor
http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

Dor

collette

Typo..I meant it is not just the “anti TNR”

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Those interested in community cats may find it of interest to watch a webinar called “Free-Roaming Cats – Issues and New Ideas for (their) Survival,” at http://youtu.be/ilJEgBeDoWc. Dr. Slater gave a presentation at the University of PEI in March of 2012. While she was in PEI, she held this webinar.

Information about the video:

” Presented by free-roaming cat expert Dr. Margaret Slater, of the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Dr. Slater discusses TNR (trap, neuter and release) programs, population dynamics and targeted spay/neuter programs. This webinar is a must for anyone already working with free-roaming cat populations or is interested in starting a program in their community.

This webinar was presented by the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies in association with the PEI Humane Society and the Sir James Dunn Animal Welfare Centre at the Atlantic Veterinary College, UPEI, Charlottetown, PEI.”

Collette

These are the absolute falsified statements copied and pasted from a certain rescue facebook page “A feral cat can live a long happy life if they aren’t constantly fighting over territory (in the case of toms) or going into heat and fighting of toms (in the case of females). The females aren’t constantly making babies are worrying about feeding them, or protecting them etc etc. A neutered/spayed cat in the wild is a much happier cat.”
This is a bunch of crap.TNR cats lifespan is about half of a pet cat.You equate “happy” with being fed and having a rubbermade container as a shelter.There is no way in heck that you can make me believe that these cats are all getting their proper vet care,their yearly checkups and vaccinations etc. These cats are not healthy and happy.They are just existing from one day to the next.With nobody to properly care for them.They are not wild animals.If they were ,they would not need human intervention.This is just a way to satisfy your human need without really taking responsibility for these cats.At least in a sanctuary,all the cats are monitered.You know exactly where and how they are doing.You can give them vet attention when needed.I just do not get how you feel TNR is better than this.Well actually I do ! Let me ask you something? When one of these feral cats go missing, what do you do.?

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

You may wish to do some reading at Care for Cats, http://careforcats.ca/year_of_the_cat/care_for_cats_resources.html. “Care for Cats is a long-term project aimed at increasing the value of owned, homeless and feral cats in Canada. Care for Cats in 2011 was CFC’s first Canada-wide campaign that addressed the issue of cat overpopulation and recognizes that people, not cats, are the problem.”

Also, “All sectors of the Canadian pet industry have and will present a powerful and unified message about responsible cat ownership by: … improving existing Trap/Neuter/Return programs and introducing TNR to new communities; …”

The About Us, Key Players, page of Care for Cats:

Dr. Liz O’Brien
Judi Cannon, PetLynx
Bill Skubovius, Petsecure Pet Health Insurance

Calgary Animal Services
Calgary Humane Society
Canadian Cat Association
Canadian Federation of Humane Societies
Canadian Veterinary Medical Association
Diane Frank DVM, DACVB (Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists), Montreal, QC
Hugh Chisolm DVM, Halifax, NS
Liz O’Brien DVM, Diplomate, ABVP (Feline Practice), Hamilton, ON
Margie Scherk DVM, Diplomate, ABVP (Feline Practice), Vancouver, BC
Susan Little DVM, Diplomate, ABVP (Feline Practice), Ottawa, ON
Diane McKelvey DVM, Diplomate, ABVP (Feline Practice), Kamloops, BC
Alice Crook, DVM, Atlantic Veterinary College, Charlottetown, PEI
Anne Marie Carey, DVM, Atlantic Veterinary College, Charlottetown, PEI
Meow Foundation
Nova Scotia SPCA
Ontario SPCA
Ontario Veterinary Medical Association
PetSmart Charities
PetLynx
Pierre’s Alley Cats
PIJAC Canada
SCAT Street Cat Rescue
Toronto Animal Services”

Those are the professionals and organizations at Care for Cats that are recommending TNR for communities. They are not recommending “euthanizing” all community cats, nor are they recommending sanctuaries.
- Collette
  
  As I said before Caretaker, you can site all the studies you wish.There are equally as many studies that say the complete ant total opposite of what the pro tnr people say.Read both sides and draw an educated conclusion like I have.I also am wondering though, are you an advocate for all animals, or just for cats? The only thing I will agree with is that it absolutely is a human problem.Just as many professionals feel that TNR is wrong and not in the best interest of the cat.I have listed many such organizations and articles in previous comments. TNR cats are suffering with a long term chronic terminal illness called homelessness. They will have a shortened lifespan filled with chronic health problems and no proper care.The only cure for this terminal illness is sanctuary or socialized and adopted out.If there is no cure than they should be euthanized ,the same as any responsible owner would do with their pet is it were suffering from a terminal illness!
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  I didn’t site any studies. I pointed interested readers to the Care for Cats website, mentioned the purpose of it, and those behind the Care for Cats campaign (and the Year of the Cat campaign).
  
  Why are they not recommending trap and kill if that is what is the most humane option for the cats?
- collette
  
  Money.That is the simple answer.More donations when one a shelter claims “no kill” and TNR’s cats instead of humanely euthanizing them.The “no kill” organizations do nothing but shift the burden ti traditional shelters.I volunteer at a traditional shelter and am very much a realist.This TNR stuff is just an offshoot of the “no kill” movement.Sorry Caretaker,but I am fully aware that we cannot save them all.I look at our winters here in Newfoundland and cannot imagine these cats out in the middle of a blizzard at -20 C.With nothing but a little rubbermaid container or makeshift shelter.The very thought of this makes me ill.They are not meant or equipped to live that way.The shortened lifespan proves it.They are not wild,they are domesticated but unsocialized.I think we will have to agree to disagree.Also find that the no-kill shelters are very quick to take a self righteous,holier than thou stance against the traditional shelters.To me this is reprehensible and ,I find,plain sickening.traditional shelters do the best with what they have and dispite what others may think,many of us do not believe that TNR is in the best interest of the cat,but only fullfills the humans need equal to outdoor hoarding.I do appreciate you debating this in a civil manner.many of the pro tnr people rant and rave like complete lunatics.This does not help to convince others about , well anything,only their extremist mentality.
http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

My seven inside cats are no longer receive vaccines, nor yearly check ups. They receive vet care when it appears warranted, and they seem happy and healthy. I don’t have a yearly medical check up either…see a doc when necessary..
The TNR’ed cats I care for sure seem happier than they did before we started caring for them. They have well constructed insulated shelter, we use plastic container shelter as temporary measures. When a feral cat goes missing we check the pound, unlike many owners of cats who let them roam.. Are you suggesting cats be killed because they MAY or MAY NOT come to harm? Seems you feel a need to push your views on others.. you don’t have to participate in TNR… so DON’T.. Your method of killing hasn’t worked yet…otherwise we wouldn’t be overrun with homeless cats! Put your concern for cats to use.. set up a sanctuary, seeing you have all the answers it shouldn’t be too tough for you!
Incidentally my eldest cat is 13 yrs. old.. still in pretty good shape.. she was a rescue cat as well.
- Collette
  
  INteresting Janice,When you say I am pushing my views on others.Yet you and your type repeatedly and in the most vile manner bash other traditional shelters on their own facebook page for making the hard decisions that you and your cronies refuse to make.I am not interested in setting up a sanctuary..yes I am suggesting that cats be euthanized rather than thrown back out into the elements with no life quality.As for trap and euthanize, how does this not work. A dead cat cannot reproduce.So the “failure” has nothing to do with having them removed and euthanized.That suggestion is just plain stupid.So you seem to be suggesting that tnr is preventing an area being overrun by homeless cats.Wrong,innacurate info.Perhaps if you and your rescue cronies stopped the criticism annd bashing of traditional rescues,the rest of us would not feel the need to be on here voicing our opinon about tnr.TNR is a farce.I will say it again.It is nothing short of hoarding.You somehow feel that just because you saved a life and kept your hands clean that you are better.Well,many of us who volunteer in traditional shelters feel people like you are sentencing these cats to a very poor life.Perhaps you need to take your own advice and set up the sanctuary.I have no desire too.I do am realistic and know that we cannot save them all.You are no better then the person who hoarded the above mentioned east side cats.Actually, I would catogorize you as worst because at least the above cats were indoors.Your feral cats are thrown back out like trash.
- http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins
  
  your mind is closed. I don’t bash the local SPCA, They support TNR. You or Janet suggested sanctuaries as the answer, did you not?.. so why throw it out if you aren’t willing to do it. I don’t think you volunteer at our local shelter, your opinions would not be sanctioned there.
- collette
  
  I am not willing to partake in TNR either.Doesnot mean I cant have an educated opinion.I am an animal advocate Janice.I do my part when it comes to any animals,not just cats.Like I have said many times, I am a realist and know we cannot save all the animals.I already volunteer at a sanctuary called the SPCA.They take in animals and attempt to find homes.They care for them and treat them.If they are unable to find homes,they hve to make hard decisions.They do so with sorrow.But they will not take the easy way out which is to claim no-kill,and dump the problem on someone else.Nor will they toss trapped ferals back out to live a miserable, short,parasite infested,disease / injury riddled life.You mentioned someones cat colony on another thread.Better tell her to check for fleas in that shed!
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  I wonder if you can grasp this, Collette: The Canadian Federation of Humane Societies, the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association, along with a long list of other animal welfare organizations and professionals, are now advocating for TNR. No mention of sanctuaries for community cats, perhaps because it’s unrealistic. Get it yet?

collette

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQpO4MCXJng..check this out! and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kejgi3p6-9E&playnext=1&list=PLA6763F54877813DB&feature=results_video

collette

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soA6BBKbVZ4 a vid about sanctuary.The ONLY proper tnr method..Proof that these feral cats can be socialized under the right circumstances!

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Are you familiar with Best Friends Animal Society? If not, they maintain a very large animal sanctuary in the US. Their sanctuary also provides sanctuary to feral cats. What do they have to say about feral cats and sanctuaries? Read here: http://www.bestfriends.org/allthegoodnews/specialfeatures/ferals2_4.cfm
- Collette
  
  Caretaker,Best Friends Mantra is ” no more homeless cats” .Despite what they say ,tnr cats are still homeless.They do not have homes [other than the little so called shelters which are suppose to protect them.I understand you providing this info.But dont assume it is lack of knowledge that causes me to be anti tnr,In fact at first when I read about tnr,I thought is was a wonderful idea.It is because of the research I changed my mind,I will like to ask you a question.[I have asked it several times but nobody seems to want to answer]What happens to these cats if they suddenly go missing? The caretakers have no idea.They could be injured, sick,crawled away for days suffering a slow painful death.Infectious diseases and parasites are rampant because you just cant get them all.I have seen pictures of tnr cats and they look far from healthy happy house pets.I believe that is a cat is not in a sanctuary,it should be humanely euthanized ie put out of its misery..I vote for quality of life not quantity..TNR colonies have no quality of life,they are high risk for injury and illness,they have no proper regular vet care,there is no real means of monitoring them for illness,injury,parasites internal and external.Sorry, but like many others ,you cannot sell me this.I am a realist.The only thing TNR does is to fulfill the humans need.Much like a hoarding situation.It is never in the best interest of the cats.Please answer the question put forward earlier in this post .I have often said that for every pro TNR article or study ,there is an equally valid anti TNR study.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Collette:
  
  Feral cats live outdoors – their home (they aren’t homeless strays). As is the case with all animals who live outdoors, they are exposed to a lot compared to their indoor counterparts. Yes, cats do go missing, cats do die.
  
  You should check out some actual TNR’d cat colonies. It might help clear up some of the notions you have. With your mind so firmly opposed to community cats, it’s doubtful, but…
  
  Yes, there are studies in favour of TNR, and studies opposed to it. Good idea to check background of those who submitted the studies.
  
  Mainstream Canadian organizations are now recommending TNVR for feral cats. Have you asked yourself why they would recommend this, rather than trap and kill?
- Collette
  
  I have know who has done the studies which refute TNR.They are reputable.Cats are not wild ,nor should they live outdoors without a home or sanctuary..I have asked myself the above question about why “mainstream Organizations” recommend it.My guess is that when you take on the “no kill” stance, people get a wonderful fuzzy warm feeling ,though misguided and realaistic.Than they open up the pocket books. Its about money.Studies have shown as well, that these feral cats ,are not wild.They are homeless strays.
- http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins
  
  Feral cats .. not WILD?? They are so afraid of people they act mighty wild. You ever handle one? They all respond at varied pace to life with people. Some never become entirely comfortable, others lap it up after trust develops. You need some experience with them before you offer opinions Collette.
- Collette
  
  “Feral cats who have been trapped in many areas where fleas exist are usually found to have a large number of fleas, causing them to be anemic. These cats also suffer from intestinal microorganisms (such as coccidia or giardia) and other parasites (commonly known as roundworms, tapeworms, and hookworms), which lead to diarrhea and subsequent dehydration. They also can have ear mites, ringworm, and upper respiratory infections. Others die from the infected wounds. Still others eventually contract feline immunodeficiency virus or feline leukemia. There is concern about the role of feral cat colonies as a vector of diseases, particularly toxoplasmosis, giardiasis (esp. from beavers), rabies .The expected lifespan of a feral cat is 2-8 yrs. ”
  Oh and Janice ..here is a quote from you “as SCR has said all along, ferals can be socialized”..If they can be socialized,they need homes.If they cant ,euthanize them.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Feral cats aren’t wild? Well, they aren’t too friendly (unless a person spends many hours socializing the cat). Would you care to take one inside with you?
  
  Definition of FERAL
  
  2 a : not domesticated or cultivated : wild
  
  b : having escaped from domestication and become wild
  
  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feral
- http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins
  
  I think animal control here will confirm that the dead cats they pick up are invariably owned cats.. the SPCA in most areas support TNR.
- Collette
  
  So what are you suggesting? That any dead cats picked up would not be TNR’d cats.Wow,are you for real.So you suggest that the only cats that are found dead are our pet cats.That may be so [though I doubt it].Tnr cats that get sick or injured would likely never be found because they will crawl away out of sught to die.
- http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins
  
  http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/peter-wolf-blog-trap-neuter-feral-cat-myths
- http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins
  
  http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/peter-wolf-blog-trap-neuter-feral-cat-myths
http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

as SCR has said all along, ferals can be socialized..
- collette
  
  If ferals can be socialized, than do it and adopt them out to loving homes.Not toss them back out to live short miserable lives!
- http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins
  
  ummm… where are the homes Collette? It is known by every shelter that there are not enough homes. So you prefer to kill them rather than care for them in their outside home. May you be reincarnated as a mouse ..
- Collette
  
  Yes, janice .Very mature.I would rather have than euthanized than to have them suffer the terminal illness of homelessness.It seems you have already been reincarnated.I will not reduce myself to your level of childishness by stating what I feel you have been reincarnated into.By the way,pretty sure I read on this thread that you would be staying out of the discussion.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Do you plan to kill the humans who are homeless, too, Collette? They may be suffering.
  
  By the way, the only homeless cats are those that have become lost or have been recently abandoned. Feral cats are living where they were born – in their outdoor home.
- Collette
  
  Caretaker,cats are not human.Dont be downright stupid.FERAL CATS ARE HOMELESS CATS.Not Rocket science,They are domesticated animals with no homes.Since you use the human comparison ,so will I, If some homeless person gave birth to a human baby,would you feel it okay to grow up without a home or someone to look after it.Just because it was born without a home does not mean it does not deserve one.Dont use human analogies because that works both ways.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Feral and barn cats are not homeless. They are born in the wild, their home is in the wild – they were not raised inside a house. Long-time stray cats have learned to survive the same as their feral counterparts. It is the newly abandoned and lost cats that are homeless.
- Collette
  
  No Caretaker.Cats are domesticated animals.Just because they were bor without a home does not mean they dont deserve one.How you can say a feral cat lives a comfortable existance just because someone sterilizes them and throwssome food at them,I will never understand.
  No
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Every living thing deserves the best life can offer them. That does not mean you kill the being because it’s current lifestyle is not what you would wish for them.
  
  Humans, too, have quite variable living circumstances, and many people suffer the world over. Should we kill them because their standard of living or other circumstance is so poor or bad? Many people have very poor diets due to their economic or other circumstances, which in turn makes them more vulnerable to disease, and early death. There are children being born and raised in worn-torn areas. They suffer terribly, others are killed. Should we deny them their right to life because of the circumstances they find themselves in? Or do we do what we can to make their lives better?
  
  Why don’t you (and others that don’t like seeing the cats living outdoors) start socializing feral cats and long-time strays and finding homes for them, instead of urging others to kill them? Yes, it’s a lot more work than it is to kill them. Too many cats to help, do you think? You start with one cat.
- Collette
  
  If every living creature “deserves the best life can offer” than remember to not swat the next mosquito that lands on you.But of course,your idea of “all” means cats.Hope you are vegetarian because anything else would make you the biggest hippocrite I have had the misfortune of dealing with.Think about that the next time you throw a steak on the BBQ. .
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  “Why don’t you (and others that don’t like seeing the cats living outdoors) start socializing feral cats and long-time strays and finding homes for them, instead of urging others to kill them? Yes, it’s a lot more work than it is to kill them.”
- Collette
  
  Because I am a realist.As I pointed out several times.I do my part with rescue organizations.It is difficult enough to find homes for the cute cuddly affectionate cats.I guess the traditional shelters can call themselves “no kill” and simply turn the animals in need away..like SCAPA and SCR.That way their hands remain clean and the burden is dumped on the traditional shelters.Typical cop out.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  What is worse, Collette, is killing animals in the shelter that are healthy or can be made healthy. Those animals had every right to live. Shelters’ first duty should be to the animals already entrusted into their care.
  
  As to the rescues/TNR organizations, you should be thanking them. If they weren’t there, many more animals would die, either out on your streets or in your shelters. I believe these rescues/TNR organizations are all-volunteer, aren’t they? You denigrate them because they won’t kill the very animals they are trying to help?
- Collette
  
  No ,wrong again.I “denigrate” them because of their blatant cruelty to animals in the guise of help.

Janet

This is a direct quote taken from Scaredy Cat Rescue facebook page..A rescue which advocates TNR. I dont get it . “Providing a good home for feral cats stems from a merciful attitude along with compassion toward the most overlooked, needy and misunderstood homeless cats. The joy and rewards come when the cats do show love in return and also from knowing that the cats are safe, comfortable, and cared for in your home instead of living a difficult dangerous life on the streets.
Feral cats are not wild animals. Rather, they are domestic animals that have taken on wild behaviors, as an instinctive defense mechanism to aid in their survival. In contrast to wild animals such as squirrels, racoons, and skunks, they are ill-equipped to survive on their own. They do not have the foot pads, and the coats of wild critters to protect them. Feral cats do not thrive in the woods where there is no human existence. Stray and feral cats form colonies around human food sources, such as open trash cans or dumpsters. Truly wild animals have mechanisms to deal with harsh winter weather, while feral cats typically search for relief in precarious places. Feral cats prefer a comfortable, safe indoor life to a lifelong experience of homeless perils.” …..These animals need sanctuary or forever homes.Not to be neutered and thrown back out with a little makeshif shelter and a bit of food.That equals no quality of life.Anyone who does this is not a true animal lover.Just a coward or outdoor hoarder.

Janet

As one final note about so called “no kill” shelter.I just read a Notice on SCAPA facebook page.This is another “no-kill” rescue who’s owners have repeatedly, in the most vile way, have slandered and bashed other traditional rescues of having animals humanely euthanized.The notice basically states that they cannot take any more animals as they are at legal capacity.Also threatens to “charge” anyone who drops off animals.[I guess it doesnt matter if the animals are abused or neglected. So, with this policy, basically once again it is a cowards way out and shifts the burden of hard decision making to traditional shelters,while they keep their own hands “clean”.People , support your traditional shelters.These no kill shelters are a farce.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

You are supposed to help the animals in your care. By killing them to make room for others, you fail those who were already in your care. You did not give those animals a humane death. They were killed. You and others may feel killing these animals is the only option, but don’t sugar-coat what you do.
- Collette
  
  Bullshit.One thing I have learned is that you cannot save them all.You are a nut-job.Tnr is a cop out.Yes.The animals are killed with a lethal injection.No it is not sugar coated.It is what it is.Certainly a better idea than allowing unspeakable suffering due to all those things I have previously mentionned.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  You can’t save them all, can’t help them all, can’t kill them all – so help the ones already in custody.
  
  Domestic cats have lived in the wild for thousands of years. Now some of you feel they’ve got to be killed because their lifestyle is not what YOU would desire for them?
  
  Was every cat killed at the dumps too far gone to help, or were they killed because it was a lot less work than to do TNR? The rationalization? TNR wouldn’t work for Newfoundland dump cats. I suppose the people that are trapping, removing and killing need to tell themselves that…
- Collette
  
  Th cats at the dump were way too many in numbers.The ones that could be helped were helped.The ones that couldnt be helped were euthanized.You make it seem as if the SPCA went in there with an atomic bomb and blew all the cats to kingdom come.You need to educate yourself.As for cats living in the wild for thousands of yrs..well..I have copied and pasted an article by national Geographic about how domesticated cats [including ferals} are a far cry from there truely wild ancesters and therefore not equipped to live in the wild.If they were they would require no human intervention.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  SPCA members stated there was on average 40 cats per dump. A number of those were removed for adoption. The remaining cats should have been handled through TNVR+maintain or relocate/sanctuary if they could not remain at the dumps. Did anyone check with nearby residents to see if there were volunteers willing to manage a cat colony? Did anyone check with nearby communities to determine if there was a willingness of Councils and citizens to financially support a cat colony? I believe there were volunteers already providing some care (feeding) for the cats, at the Glenwood dump?
  
  I’ll be looking into the article you refer to as being a National Geographic article. If memory serves, wasn’t that article written by someone from PeTA? Person doesn’t think cats are equipped to survive? Aren’t there millions of cats doing just that?
- Collette
  
  If they are equipped to live in the wild as you are now saying [ a change from your previous statement] than they don’t need human intervention.You just keep changing your story.If they are truely wild than they don’t need shelters or food no more than a lynx.So what is it it.?

http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

Staying away from this “DISCUSSION” from here on in.. can’t get through to those who are unwilling to learn..

Janet

Yes please.Keep your hateful,bashing, negative comments about other rescues on your own facebook group.The rest of us do not want to see it.The staff of these groups have been much more tolerant of your crap on their page than I would be.They are true professionals.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Other groups tolerant, professional? You mean the one that removed people from the group who supported TNR?
- Collette
  
  Not aware of that happening with the page I am involved with.Ie Gander SPCA facebook page.Do you remember the big TNR debate where some of you,including Janice Higgins and other rescu Managers spewed forth absolute venom on the Gander SPCA’s own page.Members of the SPCA responded only on their own pah=ge.The management and staff were far more professional in their treatment of the bashers,Hateful hateful people.

Sinbad the Sailer.

Well, I have read down through this thread,I too,have volunteered at a traditional rescue at Gander SPCA. I agree with what Janet and Collette are saying.I do not feel that TNR is helping cats.They are not wild.They are homeless.I also remember last spring when the news broke about the Gander SPCA having to trap and deal with the dump cats [ ie save the ones that could be saved and euthanize the rest.]..The animosity shown by members of SCR, SCAPA and Heavenly Creatures was appalling.Yet, the staff and management were very professional in dealing with the negative comments on their facebook page.As someone pointed out, the two-faced people were just plain pathetic.So I get where the anger toward members of SCR and SCAPA come from.To me,for the most part ,it is mind over matter.We dont mind because they dont matter.They re the small minded petty people.We do what is best for the animals at our rescue.TNR is just not what is best.AT ALL!

http://www.facebook.com/janicehiggins2 Janice Higgins

SCR saves many for adoption to homes, those that are not adopted are returned to their outside home. Look at pictures on Kim Brake Frasers page of the colony she has cared for three years or more.. all neutered, healthy, and warm in her shed.. fat too!
- Sinbad
  
  If this person is using a shed,I would classify that more as a sanctuary.They have a decent building to go into ad lib.What I am referring to is these colonies that are basically outdoors with those stupid little so called shelters.Also, are Kim Brakes colonies dewormed and vaccinated on a regular basis.?Are they captured and checked for external parasites?Are they getting into other peoples properties.What about the native fauna that these cats are destroying daily.Once again,you really care for nothing only your cats.There is much more to the picture than what you present.Lots of hard facts that pro tnr people just refuse to talk about .
- http://www.facebook.com/krista.browngeorge Krista Brown-George
  
  Sinbad, I have a colony that I am TNRing and I for one have shelters for the cats that are going to be heated for the winter and as for the cats killing birds, mice, etc, come visit my colony.I feed birds here too and not once has one of my ferals tried to kill one of them. When being fed regularly they no longer have the urge to hunt and kill to eat. These cats are treating the world no different then a housecat or dog that is let outside to roam are doing. My colony even lets the birds finish their meals if I have put out too much for them all to eat. And yes my colony are vet checked and theur health monitered regularly. Answer this for me….What about all the homeless people living on the streets….Should they just be put to death as well? After all, they have no shelter or health care. I am not saying that I think they should be but part of me thinks, and this is my opinion, that you probably do
- Sinbad
  
  i agree with your final sentence about human ignorance.However, if you really expect me to believe that your feral cat colony does not affect the ecosystem,than you really need to educate yourself.A well fed pet cat will kill birds and small mammals.So please do not insult my intelligence by such an idiotic statement as the one you just made.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  If you are intelligent as you claim, you will educate yourself much further on community cats, TNR, and why many animal welfare organizations are recommending TNR to manage these cats.
  
  Please do remove the “footprint” you leave all over the ecosystem you’re so overly concerned about at the expense of the community cats.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  If you are intelligent as you claim, you will educate yourself much further on community cats, TNR, and why many animal welfare organizations are recommending TNR to manage these cats.
  
  Please do remove the “footprint” you leave all over the ecosystem you’re so overly concerned about at the expense of the community cats.
- collette
  
  Well,now I have heard it all.Of all the TNR bs ,this about takes the cake.Now,you are trying to say that TNR cats dont kill birds or small mammals.The fact that you can even make this statemet on a public furom really shows the mentality of you people.I have owned pet cats my whole life.Well fed,sterilized ,indoor/outdoor cats and I would never make such a rediculous statement as the one above.A cat that doesnt hunt.You must have a brand new breed of domestic cat. What a stupid idiotic thing to suggest.Again …….WOW.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Look to your own ignorance on TNR and feral cats before you throw “stones.” You mimic some American conservationists in order to back up your rationale for wanting community cats killed. You blatantly ignore what Canadian animal welfare organizations are advocating, as does the Gander and Area SPCA.
  
  You are right, though, that a well-fed cat will kill, but he/she is much less likely to do so. The instinct is genetic. You fault them for that and wish death upon them, although community cats need to eat to survive. If the community cats are being managed through a TNR program, food is provided, therefore less need of them to hunt.
  
  Why do you allow your cats outdoors? The conservationists wouldn’t like that, at all. Haven’t you heard of their “Cats Indoors” campaign? Or is it you pick and choose what the conservationists say as it suits your purpose?
- Collette
  
  Once again,you assume that because I disagree with you ,I am ignorant or uneducated.I am neither.The “conversationalist ” take on your homeless cats [YES HOMELESS] is no less legitimate than yours.My main reasons for disagreeing with TNR is as follows.I will try to make it simple because you keep attempting to twist my words.So here it goes.1. Every cat deserves a home.2. A rubbermade container with stray is not a home.3. Homeless cats are not vetted,dewormed,deflead as they should be ,hence they are full of parasites.4 Cat colonies are a risk to public health [do a bit of research ], 5 Yes a cat colony does upset an ecosystem.[but according to one moron they dont kill birds],6 you cannot possibly tnr all the cats,others will always join group when members die.7 homeless cats live half the lifespan of a homed ,cared for ,cat. 8.sick/injured cats to not receive vet care simply because they will crawl away,suffer and die slow horrible deaths.Now I could continue but I wont.As for SOME animal welfare organizations agreeing with this…MONEY!
http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

What you overlook is that mainstream animal welfare organizations are advocating TNVR for dealing with community cats. There are reasons for that, but you folks would rather kill or advocate for it. You (and the Gander and Area SPCA) rationalize the killing, but people who kill do that, don’t they?
- Collette
  
  Me and the Gander SPCA would rather see cats humanely euthanized than spend the rest of their lives in absolute misery.As for the Gander SPCA They were dealing with well over a thousand cats.Please enlighten us ignorant ,uneducated people as to how SCR would handle this.As you can see from the above mentioned article,you couldnt even find homes for 200 socialized cats,never mind 1000 who are not socialized.81 of your beloved cats ended up killed anyway.So please please tell us how to manage 1000. Eagerly awaiting your brilliant response.Sorry Sinbad…had to say something to this idiot!
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Most of the dump cats are being killed, not “euthanized.” If the SPCA miss “removing” any cats or kittens, if more are abandoned at these dumps, you will have to trap and kill regularly in order to not end up with an area full of cats again. Government going to give you funds on a regular basis, year after year, to keep on killing? Would the public give donations to kill the cats, or would they give funds to TNVR and maintain?
  
  Did anyone check with nearby communities to see if people would be willing to volunteer to TNVR and maintain the cats (with the use of the funds the SPCA is now using to pay for cat-killing, and with fundraising efforts)? The volunteers could have re-socialized some of those cats (the strays) and then found homes for them, and relocated others (following proper protocol). Interviews given by members of the SPCA indicated that, on average, each dump had 40 cats and kittens. That is a very manageable number for nearby volunteer residents to deal with (40 is a small number, in fact).
  
  Maintaining cat colonies until the cats were adopted out, relocated, or sanctuaried if needs be (if not allowed to remain at dump sites), is what TNR organizations and others would consider the humane option for community cats. Food, shelter, and medical care when needed, is provided (“maintain”). The cats have the right to live.
  
  How long would it take the Gander and Area SPCA, or other SPCA, to find homes for over 200 cats and kittens? The people who tried to help the East Side (house) Cats didn’t have time to finish finding homes for the remainder of the cats. The poor souls were killed, some “euthanized.” Tragic.
  
  It is not practical, nor possible, to socialize and find homes for all feral, barn and stray cats. Many of those cats would not want to be in homes. How do you think other communities manage thousands of community cats? Many communities discovered that killing the cats was getting them nowhere. So how do YOU deal with a thousand cats? Like other communities who are TNR’ing thousands of cats.
- collette
  
  Yes some of the Eastside cats were euthanized.I surprised you didnt offer to toss them out with the rest of the throw aways at a TNR colony.You can preach your bullshit to me all you want.It is NEVER in the best interest of a DOMESTICATED animal ,to be tossed out like yesterdays garbage,whether you consider them feral or not.Once again I will repeat my rationalle because you are either to stupid to “get ” it or your are simply ignoring the obvious.Feral cats are homeless.They get sick and you claim that they are vetted when needed.That is absolute lies and bullshit.If a cat gets injured in the “wild’,it will crawl away and you wont find it so it is left to suffer a miserable death.Feral cats are not properly vacinnated and become a risk to public health.They are full of parasites both internal and external.[and please dont try to tell me these homeless cats are treated for parasites as they should.I would love for some of the pro tnr people to bunk out in a rubbermade crate at 20 below in a blizzard and than come tell me how comfortable it is;You are right about one thing..it certainaly is not practical or possible to find homes for these cats so your answer is to let them suffer because somehow you people have convinced yourselves that these cats are comfortable and happy.”Feral cats do not die of “old age.” They are poisoned, shot, tortured by cruel people, attacked by other animals, or hit by cars, or they die of exposure, starvation, or highly contagious fatal diseases, such as rabies, feline AIDS, feline leukemia,Even easily treatable conditions can be deadly for cats who cannot be handled and regularly taken to a veterinarian. Minor cuts or puncture wounds can turn into raging infections and abscesses. Untreated upper respiratory infections lead to eyes and noses so caked with mucus that animals can barely see or breathe. Ferals often scratch their ears bloody, driven crazy by the pain and itching of ear mites and accompanying infections. Others die of blood loss or anemia from worms and fleas. Urinary tract infections, which frequently lead to blockage in male cats, cause extremely painful, lingering deaths if not treated.” TNR is servicng a human need and not the cats need.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  I am quite familiar with community cats and their circumstances… You on the other hand are trying to rationalize that desire of yours to see them dead.
- collette
  
  Rather see them dead than be tortured in a tnr colony.It is animal cruelty and abuse.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  The cats wouldn’t agree with you…
- Collette
  
  Well Caretaker.Cats do not rationalize like humans.They do not think like humans.Stop equating them with humans.They are no more human than the steak you eat or the turkey that was served on you xmas dinner.
- http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker
  
  Cats would rather live than die. Basic instinct, not rationalization. Cattle and turkeys aren’t companion animals. Humans are omnivores, unless they choose to be vegan+supplements.
- collette
  
  MMM Caretaker, what happened to your stance about “Every living thing deserves the best life can offer them”. Once again you are contradicting your own comments which makes your arguments invalid.Pretty sure that turkeys and cow fall in the category of “living creatures”. BUT what you really mean when you say “all living creatures” , is “all living cats”.

Janet

INfo taken from an article bynational geographic..Some of it shortened and paraphrased. “If people object to those cats being euthanized, since quite often homes can’t be found for them, then those people should take those cats and put them on their own property or in stray and feral cat sanctuaries, where they can be protected and safe and not harm any other animal or harm the general public.feeding stations maintained by caregivers attract animals like squirrels and soforth that carry rabies and other diseases, creating a public health threat. They can carry salmonella which can be transferred to humans.”Cats do kill wildlife to a significant degree, which is not a popular notion with a lot of people,” .Feline predators are believed to prey on common species, such as cardinals, blue jays, and house wrens, as well as rare and endangered species”

Woody

here is my suggestion on how to rid ones yard of feral cat or domestic cat .They are as follows :
Poisons
Shooting
Traps ,prferable the ones that will break a cats leg….
Aggressive Dogs …by far my favorite!…..So if a cat in my neck of the woods [which is in the vicinity of a afore mentioned cat colony, come on my private property.Prepare to never see them again.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

I’m surprised the moderator of this post allowed your comment considering you are advocating animal cruelty, perhaps committing same. Quite the sub-human you are.
Collette

Well Woody, as much as I understand your frustration with the idiots here,I do not agree with this.I would not want a colony in the near vicinity of my residence but I wouldnt do any of the above.Chill out.

Woody

Quote taken from a comment on SCR “They are entitled to their God-given lives.” [referring to cats of course].Well, that may be so but they are also entitled to live it free of misery.We dont tnr packs of wild dogs.They are just as entitled as cats.But of course the crazy cat people are only concerned about cats and nothing else.The reason feral dogs are not TNR’d is because they become a nuisance, even dangerous.Same with cats.If someone had a cat colony near me,…well,lets just say that I would take care of the problem myself.As mentioned below.

http://twitter.com/Canadasnumber1 Caretaker

Be careful – caretakers fight back.
- woddy
  
  mmmm is that a threat? Now I am really shaking in my boots

Collette

Quote from the Royal BSer of SCR ” SPCA does not have the resources to deal with feral cats, a cage in a shelter is not the appropriate environment to socialize very scared cats. To heck with the naysayers! If they were involved with our rescue they would see how we are improving life for kitties! Instead they sit back and do nothing other than criticize! It would be far more productive to have them putting time and effort into saving cats!” ..Once again you assume that us “naysayers” are not doing our part.For me that is a complete lie as I have stated many times.I do y part.You just assume that because I disagree with TNR ,I am not a cat lover when the truth is the complete opposite.I am strongly opposed to TNR because I love cats.Feral cats are miserable cats.You guys think that because you sterilize them that all is okay in their lives.I just do not get that rationale.Who takes care of them when they get sick, who deworms them on a regular bases,who makes sure that they are all present and accounted for, who checks for injuries,who checks for fleas and ticks, etc etc.Thats right, nobody.Oh but wait.The only dead cats found are pet cats [according to JH} .Clearly, TNR cats dont die.They just disappear I guess.

Anonymous

Article: “Blogger Peter Wolf Traps and Neuters Feral Cat Myths –
Through Vox Felina, he calls out bad science — and helps TNR activists to do the same.”

http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/peter-wolf-blog-trap-neuter-feral-cat-myths .

Those who quote from anti TNR “studies” need to know if the info is bad science or being taken out of context.

collette

MMM The same goes for pro tnr “studies” …equals BAD SCIENCE!

collette

“Roy Robinson, a specialist in cat genetics, who explains how we have domesticated the cat over thousands of years and why the cat has become dependent on humans. First, he points out, cats retain juvenile characteristics that encourage dependency into adulthood. Second, they have a reduced adrenal response that requires them to be protected. Third, cats have undergone a reduction in brain size. “These changes are the changes of many generations and are not undone overnight,” Berkeley says. “We may say that the feral cat has ‘gone wild’ or ‘returned to the wild,’ but this is not the same as being a wild animal.Unlike most wild animals, feral cats locate themselves close to people. In theory, the sterilization of feral cat populations could be acceptable under the right circumstances. But finding the right circumstances can be problematic. Ingrid Newkirk, national director of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), says this method is acceptable as long as the cats are 1) isolated from roads, people, and other animals who could harm them; 2) constantly attended to by people who not only feed them but care for their medical needs; and 3) lodged in an area where the weather is constantly temperate. As Newkirk says, “I don’t think this kind of place exists in America or Canada.
“The usual responsibility we have for pet cats is suspended when it comes to ferals. It’s not responsible to leave a child on the railroad tracks and walk away. It’s not responsible to essentially do the same thing to cats by re-releasing them to the streets, even if they’re neutered. You have to play God whether you neuter and release or euthanize. It’s a matter of responsibility.”
.
Newkirk believes that part of the reason why those who neuter and release are so vehement that their methods are preferable is because they don’t see what eventually happens to their charges. The feeders see the cats at feeding time. If one or more doesn’t show up, they may miss the animal, but they don’t see what has happened to him or her. “They are operating in a bit of a vacuum,” she says. “The caretakers don’t realize that if the cats aren’t there, something bad happened to them. They’re not on holiday in the Bahamas.”

Collette

MMMM Wonder how all the little TNR cats fared in the storm.My guess is that there will be significantly less for you to worry about.No worries though, just as long as you cannot see the torture and suffering this storm visited on those poor cats!

Janet

MMMMM.Just finished reading down through this.Collette ,you hit the nail on the head so many times.These people just refuse to see what is right before their eyes.The contradict themselves repeatedly, [which is usually what happens when an argument has no merit].I just cannot imagine what these poor TNR cats are going through in this weather.What these people have to realize is that there are fates worst than death.Interesting article about the difference between feral and wild .So true!

Corner Brooker

The Kitty Corner, Edition 2

“The Toughest Decision”: East Side Cats Announcement

Personal Commentary

Adoption Blitz

Jarvis and Logan

Pepper

Minnie

Bashful

Boots

Foster cats reminder: Lynx and Sarie

Sarie (left) and Lynx.

If you are interested in adopting any of these cats, please contact the NL West SPCA using the following methods:

Phone number: 785-2747. **Email: bayofislandsspca@hotmail.com. NL West SPCA Website. NL West SPCA Facebook page.**

“The Toughest Decision”: East Side Cats Announcement

Personal Commentary

Adoption Blitz

Jarvis and Logan

Pepper

Minnie

Bashful

Boots

Foster cats reminder: Lynx and Sarie

Sarie (left) and Lynx.

If you are interested in adopting any of these cats, please contact the NL West SPCA using the following methods:

Phone number: 785-2747. Email: bayofislandsspca@hotmail.com. NL West SPCA Website. NL West SPCA Facebook page.

Phone number: 785-2747. **Email: bayofislandsspca@hotmail.com. NL West SPCA Website. NL West SPCA Facebook page.**